Tuesday, June 12, 2012

Why did Black Mormons have to get drafted for Vietnam, while White Mormons were given deferments?

I offered a legimate question via Yahoo Answers, and almost immediately the Mormon Defenders of the Faith come out with the Mormon spin on the question:

Why did Black Mormons have to get drafted for Vietnam, while White Mormons were given deferments?
One of the convenient factors ignored by the ruling White Elite MEN of the Mormon high leadership, is that White Mormon Men, by having the priesthood, could claim Minister of Religion for a deferment from fighting in Vietnam.

While if you were a Black Mormon man, there was no such deferment for them, since the Mormons consider blacks inferior, and withheld the priesthood from blacks. Without having the priesthood, Blacks were not eligible for Mormon draft deferments.

There are enough stories on the internet of "individuals" who weren't even regular members of the Mormon church, sons of devout Mormons, but once they received a low draft number, all of a sudden, those white boys were qualified for Mormon deferments - all the while black Mormons had to fight and die as a PROXY for the White Mormon boys.

Convenient, racist, but has the Mormon cult changed? Why are there no blacks that are rich enough, faithful enough, educated enough, to be included in the First Presidency, the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, or the Presiding Bishopric?

So the questions are:

1. Why did the Mormons allow Black Mormons to fight and die in Vietnam, while it was optional for the White Mormon boys?

2. Why hasn't the Mormon cult apologized for it's racist policy that allowed Black Mormon men to fight and die, all the while it protected it's special White Mormon boys?

3. Does the lack of black representation even today, after 34 years since blacks were given the priesthood, go to demonstrate that the Mormons are determined to maintain it's Elite White Boy Only Club?

Additional Details [added after questions began]

I really didn't expect so many MORMON RACIST responses blaming the government for allowing white Mormon priesthood holders to gain deferments for the draft.

Blacks can not hold the priesthood during the Vietnam War - didn't realize the U.S. gov't decided on who get priesthood in the Mormon cult.

Since White Mormon men were the only ones with priesthood, how is it the government's fault for only processing white mormon men for deferments as Ministers of Religion?

I see the RACIST MORMONS are still in charge of the cult.

No rational mind can blame the U.S. government for not processing any deferments for Minister of Religion for Mormons, when the Mormon Church WOULD ONLY send in applications for deferments for WHITE MORMON.

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Answer From: Agent Sixty Three

My turn on the soapbox, move.

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Answer From:Jimmie

Probably because there were no black mormons at that time? ya, no?

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Answer From:Springs

It isn't their fault. God told them to do it like that. It's never their fault.

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Answer From:Raven Lunatic

Your question is without basis and you are too intentionally ignorant to notice that?

This is governmental policy - not LDS. As joshsy..said we didn't run the war department. I suggest you read his and phrog's answers closely so that you might have a better understanding of exactly what you got so wrong. And since it seems to be quote the phrog day....I'm going with "educate yourself by reading a book....might I suggest the BoM."

[Raven - how is a church ordaining it's members a government policy?  Mormons ordained only White Men for priesthood, and only priesthood holders could become Mormon Missionaries - church policy NOT the government policy.   So black Mormon Men were denied the opportunity to even submit applications for deferment for the governmnent to approve; because according to church policy of withholding priesthood from Black Mormon Men, they weren't able to participate in the Minister of Religion exemption from the draft.  Timothy]

[Raven - you are correct in that Mormons didn't run the War Department, but the War Department was renamed in the same legislation that created the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Act of 1947 - well before American involvement in Vietnam.  Timothy]

[Raven - I make it a point to not read any fiction, I stick to non-fiction.  Lots of religious history, U.S. history, and books on hiking and camping,  The Book of Mormon falls in the fiction category.  Timothy]

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Answer From:Fly on the wall

The draft boards that handled the deferments were local, not national. You can bet that in Utah in the 1960s, they were all Mormons both locally and the state level.

Overall numbers came from DC, but individual decisions were made LOCALLY for each man. And the Mormon church lobbied for its deferment quotas.

Missionaries only serve 2 years. They aren't ministers. These guys are only 19 and do not have great value to running a religion like an actual pastor.

[Fly on the Wall - let's not argue terminology.  Ministers of Religion was the U.S. government's category for the deferment, which would include Priests, Pastors, Missionaries, and any possible minister of religion title to evade the draft, defering to the First Amendment where the government doesn't get involved in defining who is a minister for each religion.  Timothy]

Drafted in '65. In Utah.

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Answer From:phrog

deferment for religious purposes was a concession of THE GOVERNMENT - not the LDS church.

Phrog - a half truth is a full lie.  Yes, the deferments were official U.S. government functions, to aid religious organizations.  But no, the LDS was involved in the process.  The LDS Church:

1.  Determines who gets the priesthood, which is required for Temple Recommends, which is a requirement to be a missionary.  Let me clue you - Blacks were denied the priesthood by the LDS church; not the U.S. government.

2.  Determines who it will sign off on as having approval for submitting for Minister of Religion deferment.  The churches of all the religions had to have religious leaders sign off on the deferment application, authorizing the government to consider the application for deferment.  Since blacks were denied the priesthood by the LDS church, applications may have been submitted by a black man, would not have been approved by a Bishop or Stake President for a Minister of Religion exemption - lacking priesthood, temple recommend, and not being a missionary.

What role did the government play?  After too many deferments for White Mormon men were being submitted, the government established quotas for each state.  SO it is true, some White Mormon men might not get a draft deferment based on government quotas.

However, the United States Government has never received an LDS-church approved application for a Black Mormon Man to receive a Minister of Religion deferment during the Vietnam War.  The Government can not approve or disapprove any application that the LDS church never submits. Timothy]

so your whole premise is incorrect - as well as your following assertions.

[How exactly?  I just broke down your rhetoric.  Timothy]

~the LDS do NOT "consider blacks inferior"

[There are enough internet entries detailing how the Mormon church considered the Black race inferior, google for results.  Timothy]

~soldiers were selected by draft numbers ALSO run by the government NOT the LDS church

[Back to the above, both White Mormon Men and Black Mormon Men were issued draft numbers by the U.S. government - CORRECT, but a half truth answer is a full lie.  The other truth is that the government can not exempt a Black Mormon Man from the draft because the LDS church refused to accept Black Mormon Men as priesthood holders, temple worthy missionaries.  Timothy]

1. the "mormons" didn't "allow" anyone to fight and die - war and the draft are functions of the government

[Mormon did allow Black Mormon Men to be drafted and die, while it exempted White Mormon Men from the draft to knock on doors as Minister of Religion - a church function which sent black men to fight in Vietnam, while White Mormons had a back door to not get shot at by the Viet Cong.  Timothy]

2. since it was not their "policy" what exactly do you want an apology for

[For all the Black Mormon Men whose names are engraved on the Wall in Washington D.C.; sent to war as Mormons, considered inferior by White Mormons who were allowed exemptions not to fight.  That yellow backbone and all.  Timothy]

3. they have representation - we ALL have representation. we are His children, and race does not play into that. there are a lot of black LDS members and I don't doubt for a second that eventually there will be leaders progress, like joseph sitati.

[After 34 years, and many new Apostles and Presiding Bishopric - but not one Black Mormon Man is educated more, financially secured more, faithful more, than all the White Men chosen in front of them.  I could understand if this was ten years later, but 34 years later shows discrimination.  Timothy]

your hatred and intolerance serve only you....but I find it interesting that you paint with a brush of such hatred while accusing the same. way to keep the hate alive.

[Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.  Proverbs 26:4 NIV - some points of yours speak well for themselves.  Timothy]

edit: LOL

but I am NOT a "true white mormon man".....and no amount of judgment from the likes of you is going to change that.

actually - ALL the LDS church had to do was follow the commands of God....which they did. you don't like that? take it up w/Him. you think that's racist? get to your knees - you know who you can talk to about it.

[Blame God for discrimination against Black Mormon men.  "So God created man in his own image" Genesis 1:27 NIV]

I answered the question the best it could be answered IMHO....it is impossible to answer when your question is based in an incorrect forum, as it is. this deferment is a governmental deferment - not one determined by the LDS....but by the individual and his government. and while I will agree that there were likely no blacks submitted during a SPECIFIC time frame, they were not 100% white either. you don't like it --- good thing you weren't LDS in the time prior to 1978 then. and there were plenty who did not defer for a mission but instead served in the military - our own prophet being one....just in case you wanted to next claim that we don't hold them in esteem for not going on a mission instead. you speak in circles alot about issues you have absolutely no knowledge and tons of inerrant opinion. but then you have already shown that your main objective is to obfuscate in hopes that some will not see thru to the truth due to your silly smoke screens. so good luck w/that.

[As a White Mormon I can see how you can't acknowledge a Black Mormon was denied an opportunity to live in the era of Vietnam, but was discriminated against by the Mormons church, which put Black Mormons in the draft without a Minister of Religion exemption submitted by the LDS church for the government to approve.  Afterall, approving one Black Mormon Man for a Minister of Religion exemption would take away one more slot from the White Mormon Man with the established quota system in place.  Timothy]

there are no secrets here - and no questions we fear the asking of....bring it on. it won't change a thing....you will still be the prejudicial bigot you have oft shown yourself to be.

[I agree with you wholeheartedly here - the Mormons "won't change a thing."  No wonder why Obama was chastised by Romney by spending one year less at Harvard than Romney did.  Romney and his Mormons feel that Blacks should not hold the priesthood, should not attend Harvard, and definitely should be out of the Oval Office, unless Obama is the night janitor vacuuming the rugs.  Timothy]

you, sir, are an extremely poor representation of humanity, let alone christianity...but those are YOUR choices and I'm totally on board with you making them and enjoying their consequences. you have that right. just as does any other human being on the planet now or then or to come. you are not my judge, nor are you theirs. in short - be gone. you have no power here.

[How do you define poor representation?  To acknowledge that black, whites, hispanics, asians, and any other race or ethnic group should all have Christ's love?  Christ didn't just offer salvation to the White Man after all.  Timothy]

My Response To phrog - spoken like a true white mormon man defending the honor of his own cowardice.

All the Mormon church had to do, was give equal rights to life to blacks, then blacks could have the same opportunity to defer the draft to Vietnam.

You failed to answer the question - deflected the blame at the U.S. gov't - when the U.S. gov't didn't give quotas for one white for every one black man - - but processed exactly what was submitted for deferment for Minister of Religion

Those Mormon submissions for draft dodging was 100 percent WHITE MORMON YOUTH - not one black man. That is a racist Mormon cult policy, not a government initiative.

Good try at propaganda though.

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Answer From:joshsy

Are you seriously suggesting that the LDS church ran the war department?

[Never said the LDS church ran the War Department, which was dissolved in 1947 though, and transformed into the Department of Defense.  LDS church's role was to submit names for Minister of Religion exemptions - which they submitted only White Mormon Men.  The "war department" can only approve or disapprove what the LDS church submits, which weren't Black Mormons.  Timothy]

And as far as a white's only church - are you aware that as a Caucasian I'm a minority in my religion?

[Minority based on population worldwide, but if that is the case, and I don't doubt with Africa and South/Central America, then the non-Whites should be represented better on the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.  Minority whites, as you say, shouldn't be the only First Presidency, Apostles and Presiding Bishopric.  White Mormons don't want to lose control of the LDS church to non-white Mormons, and they have built a structure to guarantee that control.  Timothy]

There are lots of black LDS leaders today, and as the church expands there are more and more minorities in high leadership positions. Those positions don't change every afternoon so that doesn't happen overnight - however if you'd listen to the names of the new leaders announced you'd notice that when they are read (by a man born in Germany rather than the US) the majority of them are not English names.

[We were talking the upper management, the Board of Directors of Mormon inc., the First Presidency, the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, the Presiding Bishopric - all WHITE MEN.  Timothy]

The first black LDS general authority was called in 1836, as a small new religion in slave country the LDS church had a black general authority 50 years before the first black catholic priest was called in Chicago. If you go to Africa the entire leadership is black; if you go to a ward half black and half white then half the leadership is black. If you look in Utah where there aren't a lot of black people then surprise surprise, most of the leadership is white.

[So if a black man was a General Authority in 1836, what did the blacks do to have the Mormon God take their priesthood authority away?  Why hasn't a black man progressed up to being an Apostle?  Oh, I answered - black man.  Timothy]

You're way off base with your comments and your suggestions are far fetched.

My Response To: Joshy - same as above - the War Dept/Dept of Defense did not process applications for Minister of Religion of based on race.

The Mormons refused to allow blacks the priesthood, citing inferior race and God withholds the priviledge.

This refusal to have black priesthood holders, prevented black Mormons from having an equal opportunity to gain draft deferments, and safely knock on doors for Mormonism.

The gov't had nothing to do with sending black mormons to war - both white and black mormons had to register for the draft - equal treatment by the gov't

However, the Mormons only submitted white Mormons for draft deferments as Ministers of Religion.

So black Mormons had to die, while White Superior-to-Black Mormons had the option to knock on the doors safely out of a war zone. That is a church racist policy.

Not a government policy. But I see I hit the sore spot - the well kept secret, the question that wasn't supposed to be asked.

But if asked, blame the U.S. government for the policy.

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Answer From:royalbir...

I have many relatives who were drafted to fight in Vietnam who also happen to be white Mormon men who did not defer. While I'm not arguing that deferring the draft was possibly a choice (I honestly have no idea because I just haven't paid much attention to that particular detail of history), it seems to me that many Mormon white men still fought when they were drafted. Unless they were leaders in the LDS Church, which then it would make sense to defer the draft due to their other responsibilities, just as other clergy members of other religions I'm sure were also doing at the time.

[Some White Mormons, especially with the quota system, and the population of draft age Mormon men in Utah and other heavily populated Mormon states, could not qualify for deferments, if they were already expended.  Some probably did serve voluntarily, or via the draft.  However, the argument is that White Mormon Men had the church-sponsored opportunity to knock on doors for two years to dodge the draft; while Black Mormon Men were denied the same opportunity by the LDS church.  Timothy]

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Answer From:Marco

ha ha

slam dunk for phrog!
(and two extra points for using the word obfuscate)

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Answer From:Monkee Toad

"could you just call yourself an idiot for me...I'm really tired."

[Ask a legitimate question that embarrasses a Mormon and this is the response you will get more often than not.  Timothy]



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Answer From:Ruby Slippers

As others have pointed out - you cannot reasonably hold the LDS responsible for policy that they do not control/the government controls.

[YES - we can hold the LDS Church responsible.  The LDS church had the rules which prevented Black Mormon Men to qualify for the Minister of Religion deferment offered to White Mormon Men like Mitt Romney.  The government did not qualify anyone as a Minister of Religion.  The application has to be approved by local church officials signing off of the Minister of Religion exemption..  The only involvement in the government draft board was to determine if it the application is approved by church officials, and are they any deferment quotas left to issue.  Timothy]

You're only out here is the use of the word "reasonably", but you still don't come off well in this story.

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Answer From:only_me

I am not LDS mormon and even I can see that you are not addressing the issue with any intent other than to hold the LDS mormons responsible for deferments which the government negotiated. Those who have said your premise is incorrect are being kind.

[Again, someone blaming the United States Government for failing to issue exemptions to Black Mormon Men, because the LDS church never submitted any applications for Black Mormon Men to be given deferments for a two year missionary assignment.  Timothy]

No rational mind can hold a religious group responsible for deferments made by and through the US government....and no rational mind can accept that simply because you pick a time period when the LDS did not have black missionaries that it speaks for the whole of the church now (or even then). and No rational mind would charge "racist" for young men serving a mission and THEN serving their country as many did. Deferment means simply that - deferring or putting off for a short time.

[We already pointed out, the LDS is the only one responsible for determining who gets Mormon priesthood, who gets Temple Recommends, who gets approved for a Missionary assignment - all three requirement for the LDS church to approve an application for the government to approve the deferment.  How has the government erred?  Timothy]

Sorry sir, but your agenda is showing.

[Agenda - uncovering that bigotry still exists in the Mormon church - YES, an agenda.  As well as an agenda to publicize the Mormon bigotry against homosexuals.  Timothy]

drafted in Utah as well and served with many an LDS soldier

[Only your word for it, with Lying for the Lord, we don't know for sure. You could show a redacted form of your discharge papers, and papers of all the LDS your served with - showing race of course.  The issue is how many Black Mormon Men's names on are the Wall in DC that weren't offered the opportunity to have a Minister of Religion exemption because they were BLACK MORMONS.  Timothy]

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Answered by Senator John McClain
mexican-american catholics and german-american lutherans couldn't hold the LDS priesthood either to serve a mission. Is the LDS church to blame for those draftees too?
[YES, to offer exemptions from the Vietnam Draft based on race is racist, and whichever agency, church, or company would have a policy like that, is to blame.  Timothy]
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by Kerry
Its rather simple, really. The deferment allowed for full time missionary service. Missionary service was totally voluntary on the part of the member, male-female, black-white, young or old. 
[You couldn't be more WRONG.  During the era of the Vietnam Draft, no Black Mormon Men could hold the priesthood, therefore couldn't hold a Temple Recommend, therefore couldn't be a Mormon Missionary.  Strictly a White Mormon thing.  No blacks could apply.  Timothy]

So, if the member requested missionary service over military service, the deferment was requested. In other words, any discrepancy in race was a result of the member desiring missionary service. And, you miss the obvious here, there were many MORE Caucasian members in a position to participate in missionary service than others. The logical result was that there would be more deferments.
[Lying for the Lord - no BLACK MORMON MAN could submit an application for deferment, because to be a Mormon Missionary, you had to be White, you had to have a Temple Recommend, and you needed to have the Priesthood.   The Missionary field during the Vietnam War was not Black inclusive, it was an ELITE WHITE BOY ONLY CLUB.  Timothy]

You say: "phrog - spoken like a true white Mormon man defending the honor of his own cowardice."
I say, If and its a big IF you want to join the LDS Church, then you would have a beef to bring up. IF on the other hand, you don't care, then this all really does not personally mean anything to you. I also say, if you want to speak of cowardice, then you man up, study with the LDS missionaries, pray about it and take your beef before GOD. Until then, you do not have a leg to stand on, and ahem, and are "afraid" of what God will tell you.
[I was in the Bull Number Two of the Mormon Cult for five years.  I left after discovering lies, coverups and other issues where I didn't want to be a member of a society that believes in Lying for the Lord.  After discovering that Mormons believe in BECOMING GODS, after finding out that Mormons baptized after death - Adolf Hitler, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy (he was supposedly Mormon, then converted to Buddist, then after death the Mormons took him back), John Wayne Gacy, and many other serial killers, as well as hundreds, if not thousands of Jewish Holocaust victims.  God answered me with Galatians 1:6-9 NIV:
6.  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel
7.  which is really no gospel at all.  Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8.  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9.  As we have already said, so now I say again:  If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally damned!
Then I was told to follow 2 Timothy 4: 2 - 5 NIV:
2.  Preach the Word:  be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - -  with great patience and careful instructions.
3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.  Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4.  They will turn their ears away from the turn and turn aside to myths.
5.  But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
Just a few verses of a large charter.  Timothy]

The LDS Church has done more on the African continent to improve the lives of all races, than any other religious denomination, per capita membership as a whole than any one else. That's NOT being racist in any serious academician's book.
[Again, we are discussing American racism, the Vietnam War draft, and White Mormon Men having exemptions for door knocking denied by the LDS to Black Mormon Men.  Timothy]

Be a man and learn the truth. Not the precipice you have apparently heard and hang desperately onto. Who is the real coward?
[A false witness will perish, and whoever listens to him will be destroyed forever.  Proverbs 21:28  NIV]
[He who listens to a life-giving rebuke will be at home among the wise.  Proverbs 15:31 NIV]


Lifelong member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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Answered by Ammon:

Joseph Smith said...

...when I viewed the condition of men throughout the world, and more especially in this boasted realm, where the Declaration of Independence

"holds these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness;"
but at the same time some two or three millions of people are held as slaves for life, because the spirit in them is covered with a darker skin than ours...

Joseph Smith announced that all Black people should be given their freedom. And that all Black people should be allowed to vote, the same as White people. And that all Black people should receive large land grants as reparations for slavery.

[Ammon, this would be fine and dandy, but what happened once Bigot Young arrived in Salt Lake?  Blacks were not allowed the Priesthood until 1978, which meant the Black Mormons could not qualify for Draft deferments as Mormon Ministers of Religion. Timothy]
Joseph Smith was subsequently murdered by a mob of Pro-Slavery Anti-Mormons in cold blood.

[Why mob-violence?  Let's see it started with Mormons in Ohio, Joseph Smith embezzling the life savings of Mormons and non-Mormons in his illegal banking operation.  Running at night to avoid arrest warrants.  When in Nauvoo Illinois, Smith ordered the destruction for the printing presses printing critical articles against the Mormons, polygamy, Joe's wives- violating the First Amendment rights of many in town.  Mormons used mob violence prior to his death - not that two wrongs don't make a right, but a half truth does make a full lie.  Lying for the Lord, Mormons have a weird sense of morality. Timothy]
The question is this, why did Non-Mormons and Anti-Mormons start slavery of Black people in the first place???

[Has nothing to do with Black Mormons not having Mormon Minister of Religion draft deferments during the Vietnam War.  Mormons, Romney especially, when confronted with an embarrassing question, answer their own questions off topic instead. Timothy]
Why did Non-Mormons and Anti-Mormons continue slavery of Black people after starting it???

[Again, not connected to Mormon discrimination during the Vietnam War.  Mormons could have ordained Black Mormon men, allowed Blacks to have Temple Recommends, and to be on Missons, qualifying for Mormon Minister of Religion deferments which the White Mormons, like Romney enjoyed.  Timothy]
Why did Non-Mormons and Anti-Mormons murder Joseph Smith in cold blood even though Joseph Smith had publicly announced his absolute opposition to the slavery of Black people???

[Cold blood, you are discounting the armed Mormon mob, former Nauvoo Legion members gathered around the town, with rumors of an assault on the jail to free their convict Prophet again, denying justice for another countless time since New York. Timothy]
Anti-Mormons have some answering to do don't you think???

[Mormons, why aren't you answering why you discriminated against the Black Mormons?  Going back and blaming slavery for your 1965 - 1975 policy which put black mormons in the draft without the option of Minister of Religion deferments?  Timothy]
In the Vietnam war, if someone did not want to go to Vietnam then what they needed to do was to go to College. Any White Mormon who had enough money and good enough grades would have had that option.

[Translation:  The Draft Board only authorized a limited number of Mormon Minister of Religon deferments, after abuse of the deferments by the Mormons.  By having a Black Mormon take a limited deferment, it took away a draft deferment for Minister of Religion from a White Superior Mormon.

But why should a Black Mormon only have one option:  College deferment.  When White Mormon men had two options:  Minister of Religion, and College - like Romney enjoyed?  Timothy]
That applied to Non-Mormons as well as Mormons. Rewriting history to fit some bizarre narrative for purely political points to support a man, Obama the mad bomber, who has helped to murder thousands of Black people in Libya is shameful and blatantly propagandist.

[Mormon thinking is scary - not answering your church's discrimination against blacks during the Vietnam War and how it affected Blacks not having an option for deferments as Minister of Religion.  Avoid embarrassing questions - it isn't just Romney folks!  Timothy]

Furthermore there weren't that many members of THE Church Of JESUS CHRIST Of Latter Day Saints back then in the United States who were African American to begin with.

[So if there were few Black Mormons, why not give out Minister of Religion deferments to the few Black Mormons?  It wouldn't take away too many slots from the Mormon White Boys.  Timothy]
Why did the Non-Mormons and Anti-Mormons continue a sort of virtual-slavery after slavery was abolished officially after the Civil War???

[Forgetting to include Mormon discrimination?  No ordination for Blacks, no Temple Recommends for Blacks, no leadership positions for blacks.....we could go on.  Timothy]
Why are you blaiming Mormons who are a small minority of the World's population for all the problems in the World, and back during the Vietnam they were even a smaller minority of the U.S. population then they are now???

[I'm not blaming the Vietnam War on Mormons.  You twist the questions.  I blame the discrimination of the White led Mormon church to only issue recommendations to the Draft Boards for White Mormons to be granted Minister of Religion deferments.  Treating blacks in contempt, good enough to go to war, not good enough for a mission.  Timothy]
Mormons give more money to charity than any other group of people in the world according to income tax returns. Why didn't you mention that fact when you tried to attack Mormons with some non-sensical point???

[Mormon financials are not subject to outside audits, so relying on Mormon numbers is not accurate.  The population report from the Pew Forum this year showed that Mormons submit numbers to fit what they want to outcome to say.  Timothy]

A little bit of an ax to grind??? Maybe??? Obviously???
How many Mormons are there who went on a Mission for THE Church Of JESUS CHRIST Of Latter Day Saints and then went to fight in the Vietnam War, and then died, are on the War Memorial Wall in Washington D.C...
[The question was how many Black Mormons were sent who did not have an opportunity to enjoy a Minister of Religion deferment available to all White Mormon men.  Timothy]

and you did the internet equivelant of spiting on that Vietnam War Memorial wall, that now has their names on it???

[Your remarks show that truly the Mormons don't want to seriously address this sore area of discrimination during a Mormon election year.  Your Mormon logic shows that Mormons aren't qualified to be in the Oval Office either.  Timothy]
Are you proud of that for doing that??? Do you feel brave for having done that??? Do you feel like the big man for having done that???

[White Mormons like Romney symbolically "spit" on THE WALL every day they wake up and don't apologize for discriminating against blacks, which resulted in the refusal to issue Minister of Religion deferments to non-White Mormons.  Timothy]
http://Mormon.org Chat.

1. Why did the Mormons allow Black Mormons to fight and die in Vietnam, while it was optional for the White Mormon boys?

2. Why hasn't the Mormon cult apologized for it's racist policy that allowed Black Mormon men to fight and die, all the while it protected it's special White Mormon boys?

3. Does the lack of black representation even today, after 34 years since blacks were given the priesthood, go to demonstrate that the Mormons are determined to maintain it's Elite White Boy Only Club?


  1. Racism is wrong because it basis the value of a person, or their opinions, on a preconception gained by their race.

    I think we all agree that racism is wrong.

    Bigotry is the same thing, but it dismisses the individual based on religion or another form of thought.

    What's sad, is while you hold racism as such an abhorrent issue (which I agree with), you fail to notice your own obvious and clear bigotry.

    So I suggest you quit looking at the mote in my eye and notice the beam in your own, and quit straining your soup for a gnat while swallowing a camel. You are what Christ called a whited wall. I forgive you for accusing me of being a racist, and I suggest you work on your own bigotry as well.

    1. I allow anonymous posting to bring out the cowardly bigots of Mormonism.

      Beginning with a quote from Oliver W. Holmes, who says bigotry is like the pupil of the eye, the more light you shine on it, the larger it gets, versus smaller.

      This posting on blacks and draft deferments brings out the pupil malfunction of the Mormons. The more facts of how LDS church leaders would not allow black Mormons to apply for Minister or Religion deferments, the more Mormons think it was the Government's fault.

      Your Supreme Leader would be so proud of you.

      Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr. described bigots with the following quote: "The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract."[


      From: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=religious%20bigot

      "Religious bigot" is a term used to stigmatize people that pose irrefutably good arguments as to why organized religions are antisocial institutions and harmful to humanity. Otherwise known as an "Ad Hominem," people from religious orientations often attack the people making arguments against their beliefs as opposed to their actual arguments.

      1. "John says that my religion is destructive to humanity."
      2. "John is a religious bigot, and likes to masturbate to furry porn."
      3. "Therefore, John's argument is false. How could you trust a bigot that faps to furries?"

      Mormons bring up the word bigotry to chase off critics of Mormonism who are exposing the truths. Thinking that by claiming bigotry against Mormons, makes it so.

      Pretty pathetic, by anonymous posters have no morals or courage to post their real names or facebook pages to verify their religious bigotry to coworkers and neighbors.

      The greatest threat to America are the bigots who hide in plain sight. Those Good Mormon Neighbors like your propaganda commercials keep trying to prove the adage of propaganda - the more you repeat a lie, the more people take it for truth.

  2. Not sure that Mormons can be called Christian in the same sense that other religions are.
    Anyone attending church has a paid and designated minister or priest when they attend church - except Mormons. In Mormon church, isn't every male in the church a minister by designation? And that's why Mormon's received the Presidential agreement once that no Mormon male would ever have to be drafted? If there was a draft, the ministerial exemption would still apply to Mormon males; what about Mormon females?

    If Romney became President, that ministerial exemption would likely not end if it still exists as more than a moot point because we have no draft now for anyone.

    But who wants a President from a religion where every male is considered the same as a priest? Especially when there are so many of them.