Wednesday, June 13, 2012

If Mormons don't use the Christian Cross for worship or anything due to idol worship,?

I posed another a question on Yahoo Answers and again only maneuvers to evade to the question by Mormon responders:

[Please forgive the formatting, transferring Yahoo Answers format to blogspot creates line breaks that I can't control or fix with editing.]

If Mormons don't use the Christian Cross for worship or anything due to idol worship,

And if Mormons went to World War II in large numbers, then how were Mormons buried?

I visited many American War Cemetaries in France in the 80s, I seen the Cross graves, I
seen many Star of David graves.

Where were the Mormon graves if Mormons served in large numbers? Or don't Mormons
bleed?

After countless internet searches, I had just as many 'hits' if I would have searched for
Martian gravestones in American WWII cemetaries in France.

Now current policy, uses the headstones familiar in Arlington National Cemetary, and
many religions have authorized symbols which can be displayed on the top portion of the
headstone.

However, no references as to why only Crosses for Catholics and Protestants, and the Star
of David for Jewish, are the only headstones in WWII overseas military battlefield
cemetaries.

So the question is still opened, and unanswered, where are the Mormons buried if they
served in great numbers in WWII? Or did the magic underwear allow 100 percent of
Mormon servicemen to return home?

******     ******     *****     *****     *****
Answered by: Steve O

Mormons like Romney and his father escaped to other countries to avoid the military
service.

******     ******     *****     *****     *****
Answered by:  Ammon

The Movie Private Ryan is a Movie that is based on a family that had five sons. Four of
them died in combat in World War II. The fifth son was ordered by executive order to not
be in the military.

The family that the movie Private Ryan is based on...

is Mormon.

Mormons bleed. Mormons bleed and have bled in combat for this country, the United

States of America. And they bled in the Viet Nam War, and the Korean War, and they bled
in World War I and World War II.

Saddam Hussein was captured in a ditch in Iraq, by a Mormon who was a private third class

in the Army at the time, and he hunted Saddam Hussein down like a blood hound on a blood trail, until he found him, and took him into custody.

Mormons are the most highly mobilized group of people in the United States during war

time. That has been so for over one hundred years.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sP1Aai5G
 
http://Mormon.org Chat.
Response by Timothy:

Ask a question about why or where the Mormon graves of WWII are, and a Mormon
answers with a movie plot - like the Book of Mormon - work of fiction.

A Mormon found Saddam Hussein - no reports in papers - like Moroni, he appeared in the
dark?

I guess it was an All-Mormon SEAL team which captured/killed Osama Bin Laden too?

Lying for the Lord is alive and well for Mormons; for us Christians - Prov 12:22 applies.
Ammon I do agree, you are right, Mormons in wartime are highly mobile - Romney
mobilized to France afterall. Have I forgotten any of your misinformation from your
answer, or rather SPIN?

Now I do see a Mormon propaganda site lists corporal Harold Engstrom U.S. Army (active),
a corporal, corporals usually have served around two to four years - if they are good, they
make sergeant by then, but a Corporal and one other individuals put together the
intelligence report leading to the capture of nearly all the villians on the deck of cards?

Really? A corporal assigned to such an important task?

Private Third Class, United States Army, is that a Mormon rank, that would explain in ten
years on Active Duty I never met a Mormon Private Third Class.

Private (E-1 No stripe) - Private (E-2 One Stripe) - Private First Class - Specialist -
Sergeant - if you want to make up ranks,use the internet to research your story better.
Mormons are great story tellers, Joe Smith's whole life was as a story teller.

******     ******     *****     *****     *****

Answered by:  Zuboko

The cross is a symbol of the death of Christ. We choose to focus on the resurrection of
Christ. On most of our chapels and many of our temples you will see spires those spires
are a symbol of the resurrection of Christ and the promise of resurrection to all of us.

As far as the rest of your questions, don't know don't care.

Response by Timothy:

Zuboko - you should care, where were the Mormons in WWII? I know they wouldn't be
buried with crosses or stars of david, and in the cemetaries of France I seen only two
types of markers, crosses and stars of david.

Archeologists hundreds of years from now would have to conclude no Mormons died in
WWII, that Mormons must be like Quakers - pacifists who refuse to fight in wars.

So Romney is indeed a Mormon Poster Child - never went to war, dodge the draft
knocking on doors, another Mormon avoids a war, it's Mormon geneaology it seems.
[This is a typical Mormon response trained to Mormon Missionaries under the Lying for
the Lord doctrine.  If a Mormon doesn't like the question which is asked, the Mormon will
give an answer to something else, unrelated to the embarrassing question.  Romney uses
this Mormon Lying for the Lord doctrine frequency in his TV interviews.  Timothy]

******     ******     *****     *****     *****

Answered by:  Bork

We don't use or wear the cross, but I think most of us could not care less if there is a cross
on our grave. Want to put a cross on my grave? Go for it. Whatever... :-)

When a pet dies we bury it in the back yard under a pine tree. And we sometimes put a
cross on the grave. It is, after all, a symbol of death, and it seems somewhat appropriate
to put it on a grave where it belongs. This is not a Mormon thing, btw, it's just what we do.

And I have not clue where wwii mormons are buried...or what is on their grave....it's not

really that high on my list of things that keeps me up at night.

******     ******     *****     *****     *****
Answered by:  aaron

Mormons are far from absent in the military. As a Mormon Marine I take offense in you
saying that Mormons run and hide from the fight I know plenty of Mormons who have
served in wars from wwII to Vietnam and Mormons who continue to serve in conflicts to
this day. As far as what is on our graves if you are asking about overseas graves of wwII
you would probably find Mormons buried under a cross if you go to a local national
cemetery you'd find some buried with no religious symbol and others buried with a
symbol of an angel blowing a trumpet. I would challenge you to open your eyes more to
the service of Mormons in the military we might not run around screaming look at me I'm
a Mormon in the military but there are more of us out there then you'd think

******     ******     *****     *****     *****

Answered by: Dena K

Dude, do you really have so little of a life that you really think any of us care about your
anti-Mormon bulls**t.

Before you starting criticizing Mormons who served in the military, why don't you get off

your couch and serve. I'm willing to bet that if the only person who saves your sorry butt
in combat is a Mormon you wouldn't be so stupid as to spew your propaganda.

Go play in the Religion and Spirituality section.

Source(s):

Former Marine

Response by Timothy:

Dena - apparently Mormons do care, or you wouldn't be on the message board. So no no
one wants the question answered, about where would Mormons be buried on WWII
American Cemetaries, when only two types of headstones are available in France for
American deaths - the Cross and the Star of David - neither would a Mormon be caught
dead under.

I guess it isn't just the Romney's who don't serve, and hide behind Minister of Religion
deferments. I see his five "brave" boys are the Poster Children of the Poster Child Mormon
Mitt Romney - a ten year long "patriotic" war - but no Romney boy serving - like Father
like Child; like Mormon men.

Dena - Mormons do attack - the messenger not the message. So far, no Mormon has said
where the Mormon dead are buried on WWII battlefields, why are Mormons absent.
Mormons don't worship the cross so it isn't logical that Mormons would be buried without
the church and families complaining about having one buried under a Cross headstone.

As to serving I served ten years - I served and won we won the war on my watch in 1991.
We can't say the same about the current Iraq/Afghan fiasco, a repeat of Vietnam.

Which as long as we are talking Vietnam. The other question I posed was why Black
Mormon Men had to serve in Vietnam during the draft era, while White Mormon Men
could put in for Minister of Religion deferments? Blacks being denied the priesthood, that
discrimination put black Mormons on battlefields of Vietnam while White Mormons like
Romney knocked on doors in safety.

******     ******     *****     *****     *****

Answered by:  rrosskop...

I am LDS. Many LDS soldiers lie buried under crosses. We find it a bit morbid to
concentrate on the mode of Jesus's execution; so we don't wear crosses. We are fully
aware of how much evil men can do. We prefer to imagine the resurrected Christ, who
directs our church today through revelation. We look forward to his return to earth, and
have carried out his instructions in order to prepare the earth for his return.

You are quick to call us liars, but speaking for myself, I have never found a more truthful

people. Faith-promoting rumors do exist, but I imagine them to be just as prevalent in
other religions and even among atheists. I've certainly heard enough of them. Anti-
mormon propaganda is filled with unfounded accusations, many of which have long since
been proven false. People want to believe whatever makes life easier for them, or makes
them feel smarter or better than others.

Response by Timothy:

rroskop - you are only 'hoping' that we would believe that a Mormon church, a Mormon
family would allow a family member who is Mormon to forever laid to rest under the cross
- which isn't displayed on your church, in your church, or in jewelry by your Mormon
members.

But you want us to believe Mormons in WWII would be buried under crosses in American
cemetaries overseas which used crosses and stars of david. Nice try, but not an answer.
rroskop - you are right about Mormons don't believe that they lie, with Lying for the Lord
doctrine, Mormons can "lie" with immunity of sin, if it furthers their cause of Mormonism.
Like your response.

******     ******     *****     *****     *****

Answered by Mormon_4:

They would no doubt be buried with a cross on their grave.

BTW, in WWII, there were, I'm told, LDS on both sides.

Response by Timothy:

Mormon_4 your answer goes against the Mormon beliefs and doctrines.

Mormons who discourage using the cross as jewelry (usually a problem with recent converts), the Mormons have no crosses on their churches, or inside their churches.

So it comes to reasons that Mormons would not stand to have their dead buried under a Cross gravestone, when Jewish dead have their own Star of David.

So why aren't there Mormon gravesites in France and Belgium WWII American cemetaries?

*****     *****     *****     *****

Answer by Doc:

As near as I can tell Mormon soldiers are buried under crosses. This appears to be a case of Army thinking. They wanted a uniform appearance to the grave sites. If you weren't Jewish then a Latin Cross was good enough for you, whatever your religion. There is the perception that a cross is the universal symbol for graves, with the exception of graves for Jews. But, I wasn't able to see that spelled out exactly.

"Stars of David mark graves of Jewish soldiers, all others have a Latin Cross."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oise-Aisne_…That would include markers for unknown soldiers.

"A white marble headstone marks each grave - a Star of David for those of the Jewish faith; and a Latin Cross for all others"
http://www.30thinfantry.org/research.sht
I'm a Mormon, and it doesn't bother me for a Mormon soldier to be buried under a cross. Mormons prefer not to use crosses to mark their chapels, but they have no aversion to a cross.

Response by Timothy:

Doc - This doesn't even seem logical.  If I had an ancestor buried under the Star of David, and not a Cross (ancestors largely Catholic) there would be an uproar to correct the massive error.

From lds.families.org:

Gospel Questions: Why Don't Mormons Use Crosses?
by Tristi Pinkston |

When you enter an LDS church, you won't see any crosses. They do not adorn our temples, we do not wear them around our necks or decorate our homes with them.

Why not? Isn't the cross the universal symbol of a Christian faith? Doesn't this mean that Mormons aren't Christians?

Mormons are most definitely Christians, but we have a specific reason for not using the cross.
We are so deeply, eternally grateful to Jesus Christ for His atoning sacrifice and subsequent crucifixion. We profoundly feel the impact of His saving grace in our lives and we contemplate the pain He endured in our behalf, knowing that we could never do what He did. He was the only One who could accomplish such a mission, because of the depth of His love for us, His overwhelming charity, and His deep desire to see us become exalted in the last day.

Back to me:  So given this level of aversion to wearing and displaying the cross, it isn't reasonable to believe that Mormons would permit their members to be buried in WWII French and Belgium cemetaries under a Cross; more than my family would allow a WWII ancestor to be buried under the Star of David.

*****     *****     *****     *****

Answered by: Grela LaTuc

Sorry to disappoint you but there are LDS (Mormons) buried all over Europe. The Church's membership is world wide. And the living LDS normally do not wear crosses, and the chapels are were the living go. The temples do not have crosses because, again, the living go there. We, however, do no have an aversion to the cross for the dead, there are a lot of LDS soldiers buried at Arlington and other Military cemeteries. And they have crosses on their headstones.

Response by Timothy:

Well your position is unsupportive by your former prophet who spoke up about the use of the Cross, and why Mormons don't use the cross.

From:  http://jesus.christ.org/questions-answers-about-jesus-christ/why-dont-mormons-wear-crosses

Why don’t Mormons wear crosses?

 Gordon B. Hinckley, a previous prophet of the Mormon church, was asked by a minister why there were no crosses on or in the Mesa, Arizona Mormon temple. He answered, “I do not wish to give offense to any of my Christian colleagues who use the cross on the steeples of their cathedrals and at the altars of their chapels, who wear it on their vestments, and imprint it on their books and other literature. But for us, the cross is the symbol of the dying Christ, while our message is a declaration of the Living Christ.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Symbol of Our Faith,” Ensign, Apr 2005, 2-6)
Back to me:

Mormons won't display a cross on their earthly temples, on the meeting houses, on their persons - but you expect us to believe Mormons would tolerate the government burying the Mormons under a Christian Cross?

Probably the government performing Christian proxy baptisms on the Mormons soldiers, to make sure they go to Christian heaven.

Death being a transition between the mortal and immortal worlds, and a designation of the location of the mortal body, for a Mormon to have his WWII grave marked with a Cross makes as much sense as a Jewish soldier being buried under a Cross, or a Catholic under a Star of David.

Besides rhetoric, anything to back up your Mormon approved position?  Amazing that the internet is rather silent on the subject, which generally indicated lack of a subject - in this case Mormon graves.

*****     *****     *****     *****

Answered by joshsy

Whenever I see your picture beside a question I know I'm in for something epically stupid.

You didn't disappoint!

So apparently because the military doesn't have a special tombstone with Moroni on it that means that no Mormon has ever died in military service. Interesting theory. My dad was an LDS church leader, he served in the armed forces; both grandparents served, both captured, one survived Bataan, one escaped through Dunkirk, and the majority of our current church leaders served.

Clearly you have no clue to about the support and respect that the Mormon church gives to the military, and the gratitude and recognition given back.


Mormon's have no aversion to the cross (the earliest temples had crosses on top), yet we choose not to use it as a symbol of Christ as we would rather remember that He lives rather than how He died.

[Read Gordon B Hinckley's response to Crosses, and your level of Mormon leadership, compared to his, gives him more clout.  From reading his quote in the above response, Mormons won't place Crosses on Temples, Meeting Houses, inside their own houses, wear cross jewelry - but YOU want us to believe Mormon would accept having the symbol that they don't USE placed above a Mormon grave.  Judge Judy says it best:  If it doesn't make sense, then it's a lie.  Maybe she knows of Lying for the Lord of Mormonism.]

I'm just curious - when you die, let's assume you get eaten by worms because that's biblical and would be a fine end to you, do you think that your relatives will remember you by wearing a small worm around their neck?

[Avoiding an embarrassing topic, by using the Mormon tactic of changing the subject.  Since my parents have no aversions to worms, then it would be OK.  But Mormons have more aversion to Crosses than a Vampire.]

Sorry for the dig, I just don't enjoy the constant mocking about not wearing a cross by a guy who likely has a fish on his car.

[Mormon White Boy superiority coming across their Joshy?  Explains why in the other question I posed was why Black Mormon men were denied equal access by the Mormons to Minister of Religion exemptions for the Vietnam draft.  White Mormon denied Blacks equal access, more so probably due to the quota system.  The Draft Board in each locale only allowed for so many deferments for the Mormons, why would White Mormons waste a deferment on a Black man?  Bigotry in Salt Lake for sure.]

*****     *****     *****     *****    *****

Answered by Kerry

You sound full of hatred. That is the antithesis of Christianity.

Response by Timothy:

"Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord."  Lamentation 3:40 NIV

"Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you."  1 John 3:13 NIV

Following the commands of Gal 1:5-6, 2 Tim 4:2-5, and 2 Pet 2:1-3, just a few of many scripture commands to protect Christianity from the diversions of man - whether it be Constantine, his church councils, the Pope, or Mormonism.

Or maybe in the simplest terms:

"He who rebukes a man will in the end gain more favor than he who has a flattering  tongue."  Proverbs 28:23 NIV

Rebuking false doctrines and the itchy ears following false teachers has three types of rebukes.  Much like fishing.  On the slow but steady approach, you use a hook and line, and cast your line and wait; results are not usually fast or abundant.

Another fisherman uses a net.  More effort involved, the results are more than using just a fishing line and hook. 

Then there is the extreme, using dynamite thrown in the water, kills many fish and you scoop up the bounty with relatively little effort, with very fast results.

Evangelizing to apostates of Christianity takes the same three types of fishermen.

But it isn't hate, it is the love of Christ wanting all his lost sheep (mormons) to return to Christianity.

3 comments:

  1. Timothy, here are some resources you ought to check out. Good luck finding the answer!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs_emblems_for_headstones_and_markers

    http://saintsatwar.ctlbyu.org/?page_id=189

    ReplyDelete
  2. Your first reference explains MODERN graves by the military for Mormons, which would have Moroni tooting his horn.

    Does not cover where Mormons are buried in WWII, so comes back to the question, where are Mormons buried in WWII, we know the Mormons would NOT accept being buried for eternity under the cross, the Mormons don't even accept worshipping for three hours under a cross, so for eternity? NO - so where?

    Second sight doesn't answer the question, just more diversion which I expect from Mormons. Whenever Mormon Romney is embarrassed by a question, he uses the same Lying for the Lord doctrine taught to Mormons, use diversion, to get off of the embarrassing.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Ammon posted that the family portray in Saving Private Ryan was Mormon; just another Mormon myth that is undocumented.

    Was there a Mormon family of five sons, who had four sons killed in WWII? YES. Was the movie based on that family - based on the DreamWorks himself - NO.

    Mormons never check or double check facts; just repeat what they are told in Elder's Quorums - that is how cults operate: from top down, no dissent allowed.

    http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19980726&slug=2763139

    ReplyDelete