Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Brian Davis: Mormon Defender of the Fake

The following is a conversation with one of Mormondom's biggest Defender's of the Fake:  Brian Davis.  While he claims to not be a Mormon; his rhetoric shows otherwise, and his logic is flawed.

Mormon 'Helping Hands' at work; The Times-Standard Eureka Times
*****     *****     *****

Brian Davis

Matthew 5:16

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify
your Father which is in heaven.
 Sunday at 3:26pm

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Matthew 6:1-5 is very specific when it comes to charity work of Christians.

But the short version is, Mormons know how to do "work" without blowing their trumpets,
afterall, Prop 8 was never advertised as a Mormon developed program to exclude civil
rights from the homosexual community.

But it is easier to blow your trumphet when Mormons are running a "We are not so bad,
please forget about Prop 8, we didn't mean to be 'caught' hating the gay community so
badly."

From the Liberty Commentary on the Next Testament:

"6:1. Jesus warns that we do not give alms before men just to gain human recognition to
ourselves....The one who does righteousness to the Lord merely to be seen of men has no
reward from the Father in heaven. True worship is to result from the desire to serve God,
not men, since pleasing God is far more important than pleasing men....."

"6:2. Therefore in all of our giving we are not to sound a trumpet before us in a
hypocritical manner of gaining attention to ourselves. This metaphorical phrase means do
not 'publicize' your righteousness for such performers are hypocrites....Those who parade
their righteousness through the streets receive the honor of men and They have their
reward, meaning that God will add nothing extra to that reward."

But let us talk about your reference to Matthew 5:16.

Matt 5:16

"Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on a
stand and it gives light to everyone in the house."

We are not being told to wear Cross T-shirts saying I am a Christian. We are not being told
to send out Press Releases and tell the world the Christians (or Mormons) are in your
neighborhood tomorrow cleaning and painting the park.

What we are told - is that our character, our behavior, at all times should reflect our
Christian faith. How we yell or don't yell at our kids or wives. How we don't surf the
internet at work, stealing time from our boss. How we don't cut off people in traffic, or
give the one-finger salute when we get cut off.

Nowhere does it say to blow the trumpets: it says to behave as a Christian, so that all
times you represent yourself as a Christian - not just Sundays at church.

But what does Liberty Commentary on the New Testament say, someone with higher level
theology degrees:

"14-16. Ye are the light of the world describes the essential mission of the Christian to
the world. He is the conditional (salt) to meet the world's needs and he has a mission
(light) to the world. His light is to clearly shine forth into darkness of human depravity. . . .
Inconsistent living and unconfessed sin in the life of the believer will become a basket
like covering which hides the light of God. . . . we must keep our lives clean before the
Lord in order not to cover up the light which He has placed within us. "

So it is very clear that we are not told in Matthew 5:16 to broadcast to the world via Press
Releases to have people look at us - we are acting as Christians right now when you are
watching.

Instead we are told to always be in the light of God, that it is inconsistent living and
unconfessed sins, that hide the light.

Mormon Helping Hands could be CHRISTIAN CHARITY is the Mormons did Mormon Helping
Hands like the Community Service court-order people do it - they do the job, without
attracting undo attention. No press releases; just show up and work.

If someone sees you fine, but the countless, endless parade of Press Releases goes
towards Mormon Pride and Vanity.
Sunday at 6:43pm

*****     *****

Justine Harrison

Brian Davis Letting your light shine forth doesn't mean tell everyone
"Look! My light is shining forth!" It means be such a good person that your deeds speak for
themselves.

1. "take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them;
otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
2. When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the
synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have
received their reward.
3. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing,
4. so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay
you."
Matthew 6.1-4
Sunday at 9:35pm

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Brian Davis

Matthew 6:1-5 is about prayer and alms, not about charitable good works. And
what are you doing? Using a news article about charity and twisting it to trumpet your
prop 8 opposition. Talk about hypocrisy.
Sunday at 10:09pm · Like.

{Actually it isn't hypocrisy, it is pointing out to Christians the real purpose of all the Mormon Helping Hands Press Releases, that went out weeks in advance, during,and now for weeks following the event.  All considered Public Service Announcement; which equals FREE MORMON PROPAGANDA.}

{Charity and community service are not discussed in the Bible.  But one of the miracles of the Bible is that it is LIVING; Christ has given us ALL we need, to apply to any situation, to come up with the proper Christian behavior.

Brian is correct, (I know, it's rare, but give him one point) in that Matt 6:1-5 mentions almsgiving, giving to the poor.  Now Charity is giving to the poor.  But what about Community Service?

Most Community Service DOES NOT take place in the upper class rich community.  Most take place in communities that are neglected, and the community and governments don't have the funds and/or desire to fix up the area.  So is Community Service a type of almsgiving?

Can you argue that Community Service, like Mormon Helping Hands, is NOT ALMSGIVING to the community?  Providing a free service, which the community is "begging" for assistance?

Certaintly.  UNLESS you are a Mormon, and fear Matthew 6:1-5.   Mormons would much rather blow their trumpet and say "LOOK AT ME, I'M MORMON, PLEASE FORGET PROP 8, we don't really HATE gays (until Romney gets elected.")}

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

REBUKE is telling the hypocrites that they are wrong, how they are wrong,
and how they can correct their actions.

Unfortunately, you can tell people like Brian Davis justify their unChristian ways by citing scriptures out of context - much like Satan can cite scripture.

Matt 6:1-5 IS ABOUT CHARITY - - Mormons - go figure how they think. Explain
the Ohio Banking Scam that caused Joe Smith to run at night ahead of arrest warrants for
banking fraud and embezzlement of investors funds? Mormons - the original Bernie
Maddoff.
Yesterday at 3:17pm.

*****     *****

Brian Davis

Certainly, you are allowed your own interpretation, but since it contradicts the
previous Chapter of Matthew which I posted, I will disagree.

As for The Ohio Banking issue, I don't get the connection, other than your attempt to
change the topic from whether Christians should encourage charitable endeavors.

{No one saying that Christians are not supposed to support the poor, community service and chartiy.  It is just that Christian Charity IS NOT expecting ANYTHING in return, not recognition, not a charitable tax deduction, not a photo in the paper - all of those are elements of Satanic charity - expecting something in return.}

Certainly there is ample information from historical perspectives that the Mormons who
believe Joseph Smith to be a prophet will not be dissuaded from that belief. I am sure you
have a dozen of similar accusations and "scandals" to throw out there, and yet, each has
been well documented and discussed within the church to no determent to the
movement. Simply put, nothing you say is news.
20 hours ago

{Devoted cult members never question their Supreme Leader or throw him under the bus:  that is an elemental principle of identifying a cult, so yes, Joseph Smith to cult members to GOD and can't do no wrong.  Yes GOD, exaltation, Mormons believe they BECOME GODS.}

{Mormons are very good at hanging onto one scripture, and twisting it for all it's worth to validate their Mormon behavior.  David is a typical Mormon, the meaning of his "shine your light" has been explained as everyday behavior - how you act at work, how you act towards your family, how you act when you are cut off in traffic, do you use the one finger salute?  All these are "shining your light" by everyday, not having to advertise, Christian behavior.

Brian only wants to be SEEN being a CHRISTIAN.  He doesn't want to be a CHRISTIAN unless someone recognizes him.  That isn't a principle supported by Christ; supported by ENVY - YES; not by Christ.  I actually feel sorry for Mormons like Brian.  He has lost his way.}
*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Mormons don't understand the Mormon Bank Scandal, it is easier forgotten, how Mormons are dishonest, are more than willing to steal or kill non-Mormons.
13 hours ago

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Timothy Unrine

The best analogy is Beware of Greeks bearing gifts. Why are Mormons out
in force, more so this year, than other years? Prop 8 is the only answer. Mormon faxes
have been busier than ever propagating the Mormon Helping Hands lie.
13 hours ago

*****     *****

Brian Davis

Your analysis that Helping Hands is a reaction to Prop 8 is simply false.

Mormons have been doing charitable work for well over 100 years. The Relief Society was
established in 1842. as the church has grown, so has it's welfare and disaster relief
programs. Helping Hands is simply the latest in a series of programs designed to help
where needed. Same with the chruch's media efforts. Most people remember the
"Homefront" series from the 70s and 80s. No, nothing has changed, and nothing will
change. The church will continue to grow. It will continue to reach out and help those in
need.

"The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from
progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny
may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has
penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in
every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say
the work is done.” = Joseph Smith
6 hours ago

{The argument is not that the Mormon Cult is doing "charitable" work; the argument is their motivation.  Mormon Helping Hands is being manipulated into a propaganda tool as the Mormons are trying hard to undo the damage of Prop 8 to their White Horse Prophecy candidate Romney.

Other "humanitarian aid" is used, again with the trumpet blowings, anytime a natural disaster stikes.  Not one plane load of Mormon humanitarian aid has ever been delivered with the Press  Releases.

What is the motivation?  Book of Mormon placement in the near term.  Aid now, win over the hearts of those in compromising positions after a natural disaster, then send in the boys on bikes.}
*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Mormons have also been screwing over non-Mormons for over a hundred
years - Joseph Smith destroying private property, the printing press in Nauvoo - violating
the First Amendment right of the non-Mormon printer, violating banking laws making
their Ohio Banking Fraud. Two steps forward (destroying non-Mormons) and one step back
(apologizing or doing Mormon Helping Hands). Mormons have a displaced sense of
Morality.
5 hours ago

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

As for the Mormon church growing - those numbers have been retracted
by every major newspaper that was stupid enough to run the poll without verifying. My
Christian God knows how many sheep He has; he doesn't need His earthly Shepherds to
falsify numbers, but maybe the Mormon God is more gullible.
5 hours ago

*****     *****

Brian Davis

If you have to go back to 100 years to find Mormon wrong doing then I'd say
they are doing quite well.

As I said, you can point out these various issues, but each taken individually can easily be
refuted. Your strategy seems to be shoot randomly and hope no one takes the time or
effort to look up the facts.

And of course the church is growing, and considering most churches are losing more than
gaining, even a small2% increase (which is conservative) is still significant.
2 hours ago

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

You can't refute the facts, oh, I'm stupid, Mormons ALWAYS dispute the
facts, that is why the antagonism over a Mormon Presidential candidate. And the poll on
church growth indicated what I suspected all along, Christians are dumping big time
corporate religions for the smaller non-denominational churches - - which is the
largest growing segment.
2 hours ago

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Mormon wrong doing is very current too, from boy scout rapes by Mormon
leaders, bishops molesting girls, missionaries molesting church girls on church property,
sunday school teachers molesting children, Mormons defrauding with mini Bernie Madoff
ponzi schemes. I was just showing scams began with the founder, and his methods are
still employed - whatever you want to do for sexual gratification, to embezzling money.
2 hours ago · Like.

*****     *****

Brian Davis

Boy Scout Rapes? Bishop molestations? Now you are just being silly. The church
not only has a reputation for being scandal free, but their record is impeccable. Two
things contribute to that, 1) bishops and local leaders are temporary part time unpaid
positions, so there is no long term authority to defend. No pressure to protect the Viccor
as it were. and 2) the central authority ensures that members found guilty of such acts are
never in leadership positions, and are tracked from congregation to congregation. Unlike
your community church where you limited background on members and abusers can just
go to another congregation without any baggage.
about an hour ago

BRING UP THE BIG PEDOPHILE

*****     *****

Brian Davis

But let's go back to the original issue.

Matthew 5:16

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify
your Father which is in heaven.

about an hour ago

{You can see the Mormon troll desperation, going back to the original Mormon approved scripture argument, in a way of saying:  "See, this scripture, this scripture Utah says proves it's true.  How you doubt the Prophet?}

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

I'm going to assume you are an intelligent man, but for others, google
Mormon Bishop, Mormon Bishop, LDS, Boy Scouts, molest, sex abuse and you can get a
larger database of names that make the Catholic priests look like Saints.

But this is just a quick thirty minute list - the tip of the Mormon Iceberg of Sexually
Abusing Children.

Lon Harvey Kennard, Mormon Bishop, sexually abusing up to six children

Eneudo Petit, Mormon Bishop, taking lessons from Joseph Smith, flees the jurisdiction,
leaves the U.S. to avoid arrest for sodomy against a child and aggravated sexual abuse.

Timothy McCleve, Mormon Bishop, guilty of sexual abuse of children

John Baysen, Mormon Missionary, sentenced to 180 days in jail for molesting a girl and a
young woman in his Ward.

Jack LaHolt, most notorious Mormon Scout Master for molesting boys, still has the record
for the most molested.

Timur Dykes, Mormon Boy Scout leader, plead guilty to molesting 17 boy scouts.

Frank Curtis, Mormon Boy Scout leader and a Sunday School teacher, from 79 - 91
molested multiple boys in his leadership position in the Mormon church.

and let us not leave out the Relief Society

Susan Brock
, sentenced to 13 years, along with her Relief Society daughter, for molesting
(performing unwelcomed oral sex) on a 13 year old boy. I guess the boy wasn't into the
mother-daughter scenario.

But this list is long, and showed another problem.

The Mormons are covering up many sex abuse cases under the guise of "confession." If
the crime is reported to the Bishop, the Bishop's number one job is to cover up the crime,
but converting the criminal confession to a religious confession.

Mormons have been sued and still court cases are determining how much "confession" is a
confession, under what circumstances a Bishop must report to law enforcement.

So this is just the tip of the iceberg, we don't know how much has been covered up with
threats to temple-recommends if the victims go to the police.

Who is more dangerous as babysitters? Catholics or Mormons? Remember ALL the
Mormon MEN on this list were Mormon priests.
59 minutes ago
*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Seems like this short thirty minute list proves you are full of crap. Your
entire statement that Mormons DON'T - well, YES, THEY DO. How do you drive with those
Mormon blinders on? Do you really believe the Bull crap that FAIR spoon feeds you, or was
it your Mormon parents?
58 minutes ago

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Brian Davis

The problem with these examples is they are not telling the whole story. For
example Brock was confronted by her Stake President and she denied it. The church was
actually pivotal in catching her. Similar with these other cases. Church officials dd the
right thing when allegations surfaced. It is funny how you call Susan and her daughter
"Relief Society" as if that's some special position in the church. And all Mormon men are
priests if they are over the age if 16. See, you are the one who is lying. You are bearing
false witness against the church. You will have your reward.
48 minutes ago

{Brian, yes all the Mormon women ARE in the Relief Society, that is how Utah claims to be the largest women's organization - why you don't want Susan included now?  And for the men being priests, they were priests, ordained at the time of the sexual assaults on children, like your Catholic priest buddies.}

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Art Phillips, Mormon Sunday School teacher, fondling 15 year old girl,
trying to take nude photos for child pornography.

Eric Patrick "Ricky" Avant, Mormon Boy Scout Leader, sentenced to 26 years for molesting
boys over multiple years.

Richard Kenneth Ray, two different Mormon Bishops KNEW of Ray's past child sex crimes,
but did not notify the Ward, or limit Ray's access to children. Sentenced to 61 years in
prison, and the Mormon church settled out-of-court for it's knowledge and coverup.

Ryan Whitaker, Mormon Sunday School Teacher, sex with a 9 year old girl on Mormon
Church property.

Way too easy, and you say the Mormons are PERFECT NEIGHBORS, that aren't sex
molesters, and that Mormon Bishops are not covering up the sex crimes within the
Mormon church.
44 minutes ago
*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Not telling the whole story, what a Mormon liar you are, not even an hour
ago, you stated: "Boy Scout Rapes? Bishop molestations? Now you are just being silly. The
church not only has a reputation for being scandal free, but their record is impeccable"

Now the evidence of under one hour of Google finds sex assault convictions of Mormons
leaders. Silly man, do you believe your lies? It must be the magic underwear that holds all
that crap in. The non-Mormon public will decide you tales of FAIR and not happening in
the Mormon church.
39 minutes ago.

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Almost ALL Women in the Mormon church are in the RELIEF SOCIETY, the
world's largest women's organization, or so you Mormons claim. Until it's embarrassing.
Then yes, all the men hold priesthood - so yes Mormon men are priests, like your
pedophile counterpart in the Catholic kiddy porn Church.36 minutes ago

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

You must get paid well by the Mormons for defending the Faith, you
haven't backed off of one Mormon lie, even when the truth is giving you a close shave. But
we don't expect morality from Mormons or Romney either.
35 minutes ago

*****     *****

Brian Davis

It's not a matter of being embarrassed, it's a matter of you using the fact that
these people are "priests" or "Relief Society" as if their actions reflect some kind of
acceptable behavior in the church. The fact is, the church works very well with law
enforcement to ensure that every effort is made to ensure no abuse takes place in the
church. As I said, your example of a "bad Mormon" actually reflects well on the church
because the "good Mormons" were right there making sure these people were
prosecuted.

I am an ex-Mormon so there is no reason for me to defend Mormonism, other than
knowing there are wolves like you out there trying to destroy the church. Your lies need
to be exposed. Funny how you can't even defend one Biblical quote.

And of course this is about bigotry and hate. The most disturbing thing about you, is that
you actually want to destroy Mormons, and that's the start of something far more sinister
than just a disdain for the First Amendment. It leads to genocide of a people. You are
pure evil.24 minutes ago

{So it is bigotry to confront a church of child molesters?  People throw out bigotry as a way of scaring people away when the truth is getting exposed, so be accused of bigotry, means I must be hitting a Mormon nerve.  HATE? 

Let's ask why Brian LOVES child molesters instead.  Maybe he has participated, or knew of sexual abuse in the Mormon church but helped cover up the crimes?  I have to wonder why someone comes to the defense of child molesters and calls it bigotry?  What is Brian's motivation?

Could be he is just a faithful Mormon, trying to regain his Temple Recommend status, since he was not a regular Mormon, by his words, so maybe he is working his way back to the Mormon Temple by being the Number One Internet Mormon Defender of the Faith.}

*****     *****

Brian Davis

Isaiah 5:20

20 ¶Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light
for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

19 minutes ago

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Matt 5:16 shows that Mormons aren't Christian - not a very clear, Christian
light shining, more satantic, pedophiles, sex abuse, rape
14 minutes ago · Like.

*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Isa 5:20 You are condemning yourself now, you say Mormons are good
(not raping boys), evidence showsthat it is evil.

Your Mormon light is apparently out of oil, and it flickers, not shine.
13 minutes ago
*****     *****

Timothy Unrine

Church HAS NOT BEEN working well with law enforcement, that is why the
out-of-court settlements, and Mormon Bishop Rojas trial for failing to report sex crimes -
even though yes, Mormons have procedures to show people, they just don't follow them.
The Bishops take in sex crimes as confessions - non-reportable to law enforcement.
11 minutes ago.

*****     *****

Brian Davis

You are a nutter. Of course the church has worked with law enforcement.
Rojas' plea bargain was his own decision. The church was not indited in any way. In fact,
church policy was not done by him, which is why he got in hot water. Sorry, but the church
is filled with imperfect people, but it works very hard to make sure they do the right
thing.
5 minutes ago

{Continuing to read Google results on Mormon Sex Abuse Coverup does reveal that the Mormons have "covered up" sex crimes by having the "Criminal confessions" become religious confesssions, where the Bishop's aren't obligated to report the crimes.

One of the biggest pedophiles, Richard Kenneth Ray, was a KNOWN child molesters to at least two different Mormon Bishops and both failed to warn the Ward's parents or children; and Ray went on to molest for many years due to not reporting to the law enforcement agencies.  Instead, they moved him like Catholics moved their pedophile priests.  Maybe it's the same club?}



Brian Davis is found on many internet message boards, always defending the Mormon Church, while claiming to not belonging to the Mormon Church.

All is not what it seems on the internet.  By his responses, Brian Davis is a Mormon Defender of the Fake, which makes his rhetoric dangerous, if not challenged and disputed.

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